Kelley Bonner - Managing Burnout - powered by Happy Scribe

Sacha Thompson is a respected and certified DEI coach. For the next 30 minutes, we'll get an exclusive look at some of her conversations with others in the field. Welcome to DEI After Five.

Hello, and welcome to DEI After Five. I am excited to have you here with us today because the topic that we're going to be covering is one that is near and dear to me. If you followed me for any time, I talk a lot about the importance of psychological safety, the importance of dealing with burnout. And so today my guest is Kelley Bonner, who is an organizational strategist and burnout expert. And so she's been doing this work for years and just really want to get your take on what's happening right now with these practitioners because many of them are in the front lines of doing this work and have been for the past two plus years in the middle of a pandemic, racial unrest, et cetera, et cetera. So first, thank you, Kelley, for being here. Welcome. Let's just dive right in. What are some of the things that you are seeing right now?

Yes, I'm really excited. Like I said, let's dive into one of my favorite topics. I'm really excited to talk about this because I really do feel like many of us who are doing this work, whether it be organizational strategy, de, I work psychological safety. There is an epidemic level of burnout amongst our field. And most of it is because we really are struggling with competing desires and conflicts in the sense that oftentimes we are doing the work. Right. But we are also impacted by the work. So there is this feeling of like it's very few kind of you think of like a doctor. Right. They may be healing people in pain, but they may not be experiencing that pain themselves. However, I feel like in our field, it's unique in the sense that we often are experiencing the pain we're trying to help others manage. And so there's that level that adds to burnout. But then even above that, there is a lot of feelings, pervasively of onlyness in the field that many times we're the only ones in our position or we're underfunded, we're one or two deep and we're facing, again, systems and structures that aren't created for us. So again, we feel isolated and we're also experiencing the cultural pain or whatever's going on outside the world as we help others manage it.

Yeah, it's a lot, right? It's a lot. I was talking to a client the other day where he said exactly what you just said. Right. It's fighting these battles and trying to advocate for others. But in the same sense and same token, advocating for yourselves as well. So it's not like you're totally disconnected from the work. And one of the things that was interesting in our conversation was I think many people think burnout is just being tired, but it can manifest in so many different ways. Right. So can you talk to me just a little bit about how burnout can look? Because I think we have this one mindset of what it could be, but it could be so many other things.

Yeah, it really is. So many other things. Obviously, fatigue and being tired is one of them, but so many other things happen. The thing about burnout is it's really sneaky. And one of the reasons why I got into doing this work is because I realized that I was experiencing burnout but didn't have the language for it, didn't actually know what that was. I just knew it was this feeling. It was increased cynicism, feeling dread about my work and this feeling like, why am I in it? Why am I doing what I do? It was also allowing me to it was impacting my relationships with others. I was having frequent like, I was short tempered, I was losing joy. And so the first thing I tell people is When's the last time you felt joy? I mean, many of us come to this work because it moves us. It's because it's something we felt connected to and a mission, and we were excited when we learned about it. And then you fast forward a couple of years for some folks, sadly, a couple of months and you realize that they don't experience joy. And so my first thing, a metric that I tell people is the first thing to know is when is the last time you felt joy? And then we work back from there. Okay.

Yeah, we could talk about joy all day because I'm really in that mindset. And I have a cousin that does home organizing and the Marie Kondo thing because it sparked joy and it's become a little bit of a joke for folks. But it really when you understand what that means and what that looks like, it can really center who you are in the spaces that you're in and how you approach what you're doing. I even tell my clients in your workspace, like have your workspace spark joy. What are the things that you like when you went on vacation? What were the things that you held onto that you enjoy doing, and how do you infuse that into your day? Right. As a way to kind of counter that burnout or counter that feeling of anxiety or dread for a lot of people. Right. So what are some other things that people can do?

Yeah. I think joy is a simple idea, but sometimes harder in practice to do. But really, I like what you said about putting pieces of joy in your life in everyday ways. I mean, the way we teach people to overcome burnout is a component of a couple of things. So the first thing is emotion regulation really getting your body in check because we are so dysregulated when we talk about I'm not going to bore you all with the science of trauma and dysregulation, but just the fact that we spend most of our days with our shoulders up around our elbows, right above our shoulders. Up to our ears. Excuse me, there are things that we do that show us that where our body is not rested, it is not calm. So that's one the second component is really changing the way we think about the work that we do and really getting centered on what the meaning of work is. And the last piece is the joy piece. It's the self care that is short, doing it quickly, doing it with ease. What we can do in 15 minutes or less, that isn't a financial burden. I mean, that's how I basically teach at least how to recover from and prevent burnout. It really has to have those components and thinking about work as a place that brings you joy and how to restore that. What is your reason for getting in the work? What is your purpose? And really having people connect to that and then practicing joy in small, daily ways?

I love it because I think for me, I came out of a very toxic work environment that manifested in so many different ways, hair loss, and just all kinds of medical issues that came up. And I was very cognizant when I decided, okay, I'm going to do my own thing of how I wanted that to look right, how I wanted my day to start, how I wanted to engage with clients, how I wanted to be and to live. And I have felt probably the best I have ever felt in my life. I was just thinking this morning, I'm like, wow, I haven't worked out in, I don't know, maybe three months, but I feel okay because I've been doing other things that don't make me feel like I'm sedentary. Right. And so when I talk to some of my clients that are DEI practitioners, I do ask them about joy. I do provide them worksheet on self, like it's a self care checklist for them in the moment. What are you doing? All these things? And they have to kind of score it from zero to ten. But I think taking that time to realize I'm not taking care of myself, that's when you realize, okay, that burnout is starting to take over.

Yes. That's the first thing that goes. Right. Because we're so mission focused on taking care of others. Right. But the last thing we realize is the first thing that goes to take care of ourselves. It becomes on the bottom of your priority list. That is definitely a sign. And so much of selfcare. I really love that you do the selfcare checklist. It's so important. But part of it is, like you said, the awareness piece is knowing that you actually need it. And it's why when I do this work, self care is last. Not because it's not the most important, but because so many times we've lost sight of where we are, who we are, what's in my body, like what's going on with me? And what I've noticed chronically in fields of mental health and de. I work is there is chronic headaches, there are stomach issues you talked about, even hair loss, things that manifest that show chronic stress and body breaking in, your body breaking down. And so it is accepting that piece and stopping long enough to notice that you're ill, because the question I ask most people is like, what's going on in your body? And I know from personal experience with burnout, when I have burnt out, when I'm really paying attention to myself, I'm like, oh, yeah, I didn't realize I had a headache. I didn't realize that I haven't eaten in a little bit. Right. We're very disconnected. And self care helps you reconnect. But then there's that mindset piece, right. About being clear, because the thing is, which I think is amazing, and I think anybody who operates out of a system and creates their own path usually tends to be happier. But many times we can't right away or we don't see a path for us to do that. And so it's like, how do you cope in systems that are oppressive and this work that talk the talk but do not walk the walk and basically say, hey, you're here, you fix it, right. Instead of doing the work themselves, how do you get through a day like that and retain your sanity and more importantly, retain your joy? And so there's some key mindset shifts that I teach folks to get them to that space because so many people are experiencing organization cultures that do not appreciate their work, that pay it only lift service but don't do anything in practice.

What are some of those things? Like not to tell all the secrets? Absolutely. Because as you're talking, I'm just recalling conversations that I've had with so many practitioners that that's the issue. Right. A lot of the stress is being in these systems that don't want to change, that are speaking lip service to this. And many of them are because their leaders haven't done the work themselves, which is a whole other topic. But how do you cope in those situations?

There is no secrets. I want people to know this information because I want us to be able to sustain the work. So I want to tell you at least two key ones that I think have helped myself and have helped others. And that is the first one is really getting clear on what your values are. That's something that I do. I do a value exercise with everybody that I work with. And I do this with organizations. I tend to work with organizations that have DEI practitioners or anytime they congregate together. And this is the work we do. We get really clear on what our values are. And it's very important to define what I mean, when I say our values, what are the things that we live by internally when we think about who we want to be, what does that person look like? So for myself, I'll give you mine and their qualities. They don't attach to an ideology or a religious belief. They allow people to have all those things and still have their values so they shouldn't be in conflict. But mine, for example, is I have three. I need to be authentic, I need to be passionate, and I need to be creative. That in my perfect world, I live in a world where my creativity, my passion and my authenticity changes the world around me. And it's a catalyst for change. So for me, what that first piece does by knowing my values is it helps me evaluate what about my day as a success? How do I know work is successful? It's not if my boss pats me on my back or gives me the money that I need or whether or not this initiative I put my heart and soul into has been beloved by all. But it's like, was this an opportunity for me to express my authenticity? Could I find a way to be myself? Could I find a way to be creative in my day? Am I excited about what I've put together? And then it becomes a way to say, if I did those things, I had a successful day, I had a wonderful day. And then if you can't do that, that's my litmus. It's time to get on indeed, Linkedin, usajobs.gov.It's time to find a new job when I can't bring those three qualities into my work. When I go on job interviews, how do you allow me to be creative? Do you allow me to be like myself? Are you receptive to my hair? Are all those things are in the evaluation space? So that's the real first one. The second one is even more powerful. And that is to have people sit with this simple truth. There will always be more demanded of you than the resources it takes to get the job done.

Say it again. Say it again.

Then the resources it takes to get it done. Always more demands than resources. And on the face of that, that may feel like, well, what am I doing in this work? I got to get out of here. There's no demands. But think about what we've taken on. Think about what we have done as our mission, no matter what you're doing. And I do DEI work. We have chosen a field that is upside down. We are trying to right wrongs, and we are trying to bring healing right systemically. We have set ourselves up. That is not a work that comes flush with resources. It is a very demanding work. And so to sit with that should let you have a release. And it should allow you to release the need to get everything done. To do all the things that you need to do in a day that again, you link to those values. You reframe your day because the work is going to be there, whether there's 25 hours in a day, 30 or 20. So you might as well just clock out at your 8 hours or your 9 hours or whatever your normal day is and move. Because the last piece of that demand versus resources is when we have less resources, there's only two real resources that you have, and that is time and yourself. And the thing about it is, what do we do with precious resources, things that are less of. We conserve it, we treat it well, we treat it precious. And so are you treating yourself as a precious resource?

Yes.

Only so much you! Right?

Right.

Only so much you in time. Why are you not treating it like I talk about people, about toothpaste. When you start your toothpaste, you're reckless. You're like, I'll put a bunch on then if you're like me by the end, I'm like squeezing the tiniest little piece of it out because I want to conserve it, because I'm too lazy to go to the grocery store and get more. But how are we doing that with ourselves? What about ourselves? Are we treating preciously like there's only so much left of it? So I have to make sure it lasts and it's appreciated. A savor, a sip of wine or something, a great meal. How do we savor ourselves? And when you let yourself marinate in that, it changes your approach to the work?

I absolutely love all of that. All of it, because it's so real. And when you said when you initially think about that, like the number of resources, it could be disheartening. Right. Like, why am I even doing this? Because there's never going to be enough resources. But when you reframe that, it's like, you know what? No, there'll never be enough resources. Let me take my time to do what I can with what I have at this moment. I'm about collaborative work. Right. Like, who can I partner with? Who can I bounce ideas off of? Who has resources that we can get connected? So that one, I'm not doing all the work, and two, it's getting done right. And so it's about reframing. And how do you shape that? And we don't always have to wear a cape.

Yes. Put it down. Retire and nobody asked us to. Right. So who taught us that? And I often think that we feel particularly for practitioners of color, we have been culturally taught that our legacy is one of struggle, because historically we have struggled. There is no racialized or ethnic minority or marginalized identity that does not feel like their inheritance is struggle. And we need to restructure that to the work. We cannot bring struggle to the work. We have to bring our new sense of energy that I am precious the work I do is precious. And in order to preserve it and to make inroads and this work, then I need to have boundaries. Right. That's how you treat precious. You boundary it, you protect it. And I need to learn to delegate and collaborate. Right. That's the practical application I teach folks when we do this work, and it's the same of what you ask for your organization. This is the key part is you take these messages. I do this organizationally. I ask organization what its values are. I tell an organization that's always going to be more expected of you than you have to give, because the lessons we internalize are the lessons we teach because we teach our organizations. No, don't call me at midnight about some event happening on the news. There will always be something happening on the news. There will always be another moment. So let's think about how we can collaborate, how we can put some structure around our initiative so we're not always reacting. The principles that I teach individuals in this work easily translate to the organizations they work for.

I'm loving all of this because you just reminded me of a conversation that I had with a grad student that I've been chatting with, and she's in law school, and she said, legally, especially when you're thinking about diversity and inclusion work, what's the bare minimum that we can do, right? And I was like, why don't we flip this? And again, it goes back to mindset. Why don't we flip this? What's the max that we can do before it's illegal? How can we push the envelope? How can we do the most without crossing that boundary? And I think if we can get organizations and individuals to shift that mindset from what's the bare minimum to what's the Max before we start seeing some issues, then you start to really be creative, and a lot of that burden starts to come off because you don't feel as restricted. Right. So it's getting out of that compliance mindset.

Yes, because it's so beyond I mean, it's our work. Our work is not compliance. It's people's lives. Right. It's beyond compliance. And oftentimes, obviously, there's legal minimums for a reason. But part of getting an organization and yourself aligned with the values is values aren't legal minimums or maximums.

Exactly.

They are expressions of who you are. If you say you want to be a company that recruits the best diverse talent, then demonstrate that. And that's not my minimum legal compliance. It's like, how do we take that and make that into something tangible that people who are applying to the organization see and people who are in the organization more importantly, feel? And that's part of the work. It is re entering it from a space of, let's be clear about what the values are of myself to stay in this work and what the values are of this organization. And then we balance it with letting them know, let's be realistic. There's only so much they can get accomplished. But it's probably more than we're doing. Yeah. Let's be clear. Let me show you how I do that and how I'm able to how we can set boundaries and carve out the work and how we can collaborate and delegate some of this work. So it's really impactful.

I love it. So the last thing I'm going to ask you, because the underlying theme of this is it's after five, sometimes you have your favorite beverage with you. Oftentimes I'm drinking coconut water or green tea. Sometimes it's wine. But the whole purpose of that is like, what are you filling your cup up with? Right. And we take that as. And we started this by saying this work is about giving to others, and we're always filling everybody else's cup. My question to you is, what's in your cup? Like, what do you do to fill yourself back up?

I love you. What's in your cup? Literally, because sometimes for me, it's also green tea. Sometimes it's a great gin and tonic. I'm just saying. But for me to fill up my cup, what I do is I really develop. Like I said, I believe in self care practices that are 15 minutes or less because I just and everybody else's and aren't cost prohibitive. Like, you need to be able to just do it, whatever. And I teach people that selfcare is along these five domains. And I teach it because that's what I do. But I think about selfcare for my body. And that might include I love a good yellow. As you can see, I love it. Love it. Self care for the body is about wearing clothing. You love wearing jewelry. You love wearing the different things that make you feel connected and happy. It also is getting your annual exam right, that we help you. A self care for the heart. What do I do to make me feel connected? When you're burned out, you feel disconnected. Your emotions, your numb. What do I do to connect? I talk to others. I make sure to laugh every day.If I'm not laughing, something is very, very wrong. In a day. I talk about self care for the soul. What makes me feel connected to something bigger than myself? Sometimes it's prayer, sometimes it's singing. The arts are expressing yourself is self care for the soul. It's gratitude. I have a daily gratitude practice. Every day I write down what are the three to five things I'm grateful for? It's self care for the mind, disconnecting. I read every day, and not for, like, building up or work. I do that too. But I love me a good fiction. Silly, silly, advanced novel. Please, you can't stop me. I'm going to read a couple of pages. So those are like the four domains. And the last one that I do for myself is work. And part of that is exactly what you said self care for work which is I decorate my little workspace. I have little gold paper clips because they bring me joy. No other reason. Twins.

Mine are rose gold. Mine a rose gold. Yes.

My place is decorated in a way that makes me joyful and I bring that in an office or at home wherever that is. So I take care of my heart, my body, my mind, my soul and my work and small little things I do each day that fill my cup back up.

I love it. Kelley, thank you so much for this. I mean we could have gone on and on Because this is just a topic that I think so many people want to know more about but aren't quite sure where to start or what to do and I'm sure that we'll have you on again because this is a theme for me, right. It's self care and wellness and how do you take care of yourself in this space? And so I mean I just was just writing down everything that you were saying because it's just needed so thank you so much.

Thank you for having me. Yes, and so everyone.

Thank you for joining us today. I am thrilled. Hopefully you wrote down things like I did because this whole the five things for self care. I'm like oh yeah, I forgot about the mind and the soul. Let me work on that. So thank you so much. Kelley, where can people find you?

Yeah, you can email me at Kelley@burnbrightconsulting.com so that's my email and I am on Instagram and Twitter. Same handle and it's Kelley A. Bonner wonderful.

Thank you again for this and thank you all for watching. Again, really excited for this particular episode. Please feel free to share this with others that are in this space Because I think everyone will get something out of this and be sure to subscribe that you don't miss the next episode. Alright. Thank you and we'll see you next time.