Is What You See What You Get in Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion – with Adriana Crawford

DEI After 5 Adriana Crawford FINAL.mp4 - powered by Happy Scribe

Sacha Thompson is a respected and certified DEI coach. For the next 30 minutes, we'll get an exclusive look at some of her conversations with others in the field. Welcome to DEI After 5.

Hello, everyone, and welcome to this week's episode of DEI After Five. I am really thrilled and excited to have my next guest with us today because this is someone that I've been watching for a while in the DEI space and just truly appreciate her approach to this work and the things that she does. And so without further Ado, I want to bring on Adriana Crawford. Hello and welcome. Hello.

Thank you so much for having me.

So, Adriana, for those that may not be familiar with you or the work that you do, can you just tell us a little bit about kind of your work and how you got into it?

Yeah, my work in DEI right now. I'm currently the senior DEI manager. I'm leading all DEI initiatives over at Movement Strategy, which is a social media advertising firm. And while I am new to that industry, advertising and social media, I am not at all new to DEI. So much of my work from the start of my career was in equity. I just didn't have the name for it. There were many instances throughout workforce development, nonprofit leadership and management, government work. It where I was always bringing in that inclusive lens, often taking on I think many of your listeners, as well as you would know, a lot of us have done this work unpaid and in many instances, uncredited, because we knew it was the right thing to do. And when you're involved in equity work in the ways that I have across different sectors and industries, private, nonprofit and government, you start to realize that, for one, this is a lot of work. This requires you to bring in a lot of different skills out of your proverbial tool belt from change management, people management, strategic planning, and all of that in order to be effective in many instances because you have to be able to influence without direct authority. And so ultimately, once I understood that this was an industry that I could be compensated for, where I could lead and really make impacts or changes where I could be discerning in the kind of work that I took on, the kind of companies that I would work with, because having that support is critical. That's how ultimately I leaned into this work and where I am in my current position over at Movement Strategy, which is with an advertising social media, which so many of us are connected with and so many of us are impacted by. And I'm really thankful that the work that I do directly impacts a lot of the messages that we see from some of the biggest brands that we recognize.

I think that that's important for anyone that has followed me because I started part of my career, I should say within marketing. Right. So it's always kind of customer facing and what's kind of out there in the forefront. And I'm very critical of companies as well, especially when it comes to diversity and inclusion, because you often see kind of the pretty thing on the outside and there's chaos on the inside. Right. And so with the last kind of uprising over the last couple of years, that was a big part of this shift. And these companies putting out, especially on social media, the black boxes and solidarity and all of these statements that they came out with, but their black and Brown employees were like, guess what? We're having a horrible experience. Don't believe the height, because what they're doing externally, the PR of it, I call it, is very different than our day to day reality. Right. And so that, I think, has been one of the changes that we've seen taking place over the last few years, is a call for accountability, because I'm not going to say a total shift, but a call for accountability and aligning those messages. And so can you talk to us just a little bit about what you're seeing in that space too?

Absolutely. So much of what she said touches on the work that we care about, that I care about, and that was really tangible to me entering this industry. So having an undergrad, I had a deep interest in PR. One of my majors was in communications, and I worked in marketing in different fields and areas, which is part of my business, which we might touch on a little bit later. But it was really important for me to be able to say confidently that in the work that I'm doing, that we are walking the talk. Marketing, to your point, is all about influence. It's all about putting the right messaging out there to ultimately influence behavior, to get people to purchase, consume, support, your product, your service, you as an individual. And in so many instances, which is why marketing sometimes gets that bad rap, is that it's about crafting the story. But when you peek behind the curtain and sometimes you don't even have to really peak, that hard. It's to your point, chaos. There's a lack of a sense of belonging. There is deep inequities because it's all about the image. And so these are things that I have seen. But what I can say confidently, particularly with my work at Movement strategy, is that since I've been in the role and even prior to that, there's been a very specific and concerted effort to ensure that one the work that we take on is with companies that do not have deep seated problems. We are not afraid to step away or to refuse to work with a particular company that we might consider working with because their values do not align with ours. And it also makes sure that we have to ensure that our house is clean, too. And that's a process in and of itself. And it's a process that I proudly take on and that we're probably working on together. And we can also say and I've seen this since my time working is that companies are starting companies, brands are starting to require that the agencies that the companies that they partner with or work with also align with their values. They're stating flat out, when you include in your pitch all of these pretty figures and images and showing us all the work that you can do for us. Let's also talk about what you're doing when it relates to diversity, equity and inclusion. Show us your demographics, show us your strategy, show us to talk to us in the pitch process about how you live these values day to day, because we want to make sure that the messages that we are putting out there, the images that we're putting out there are consistent with the values of every entity that we work with and partner with. So there is that shift that I've seen happen in real time. Some brands more so than others.

You know, it's interesting because like I said, for a good portion of my career, I was in marketing, and I was having a conversation not too long ago with someone where they said they've lost business because the team was not diverse. Right. What they put out there, the image was diverse and had representation, but the people that were actually putting it together lacked that same representation. And therefore, the thought process was very centered on the numbers and not necessarily the inclusion aspect of it. Right. And how you tie those things together. And so I think that that is kind of what you're saying is people are now wanting that they want to not just see the numbers, but how is it reflected in what is being created? And how are you honestly in genuinely representing your client base or your consumer base.

Right.

So as I'm thinking through this, too, one of the things that I think is important for practitioners to know and understand and why I thought it was important to have you on here is because for so long, DEI has been in HR. Right. And anyone that knows me knows that part of the reason why I left corporate was because there was that mindset that anything from diversity and inclusion needs to come from the HR team. I was in marketing, and there was just a battle of kind of what my job was supposed to be. And so to your point, I was told that my job was to make things look pretty. And I'm like, that's not what marketing does, but it gave me a sense of that mindset shift. And so I think it's important for companies and organizations to understand that this DEI lens is so much more than a people in process thing. Right. It goes into what are the products, who's your client base, who's the audience that you're speaking to, it's understanding kind of the marketplace and where your products fit into or how it's being seen by people and individuals from underrepresented communities, not just the majority groups. And so talked to me a little bit about kind of your take or beyond kind of what you're seeing now day to day, but the industry as a whole and how DEI is kind of morphing beyond just that HR umbrella.

Yeah, that's a great question. And it's something that we continue to tackle and to discuss on a daily basis. So I can say with my current employer that we always are striving to be ahead of the curve and not to be reactionary. And that's something that was incredibly important for me as well, because when we say our Di statement says that we believe that what we put out into the world matters, and we stand by that. And what I see for the industry as a whole is that people are realizing and have realized that, for one, it is not advantageous for the morale of the team, nor is it advantageous from a business standpoint, nor is it advantageous for working with your clients to not be aligned in your values, to, quite frankly, not get it or not make a concerted effort to get it. Because at the end of the day, this world, this world of marketing relies purely on customer and consumer perception. And when we talk about, well, what do people really think about these brand that you're working with? What do they think about the product or the messaging or the statement? Because otherwise, if you're not doing your due diligence and I've seen this time and time again, it takes a toll financially, emotionally, staffing wise. It takes a toll to have to then double back. And now you have to deal with crisis communications. And in the world of social media, you have community managers who are the ones having to face dealing and managing the comments every time something is posted by a brand that is undergoing some bad press. These top executives aren't the ones that have to deal with it, although they're managing and they are aware of it. It's the community managers, the social media managers, the folks that are looking at the analytics that have to account and our health on the line to do that. And so I think that the more and more we talk about it, the more and more we have these conversations, people in the industry are really realized, like, you know what? This goes beyond just maybe a handful of days of bad press. This takes a toll on our people, on the people verbally, on the front lines who are having to manage these types of these types of interactions, especially in the world, especially in social media. And to your point around human resources, I feel really strongly about this because human resources, although for some folks, they're starting to change it, I will say, at movement. Our people and culture team is one that is changing the face of HR in the sense that human resources typically, as you know, serves the interests of the company. It's compliance driven. It's to essentially ensure that people don't get sued. Which is why people in general have a distrust of HR when they're going through something, when they might be experiencing some sense of maybe discrimination or microaggressions or things like that. In many instances, their first bet is not necessary to engage with HR because there might be that sense of like, all right, is that something actually going to happen? Where do the interest really lie? Do they have my best interest at heart? And that's where DEI, my role in particular, comes into play as sometimes the first line of defense, sometimes the intermediary, and in some instances, particularly because of my role as leading all of DEI and my knowledge of business strategy and change management. I also think about things from an overarching sense, like, let's partner on this together. And in some cases, it doesn't even have to make it to HR because it exists outside of that. And there is a genuinely safe space to grapple with, discuss, navigate through some of some things that may be in the more Gray areas. So it's the duality of my role within the industry and understanding how the industry works overall as we try to make a name for DEI, while also recognizing that some clients are a little bit further along than others and operating not just as your marketing or your social media agency, but in some instances, consulting on the fly and say, no, I don't think you should say that. I don't think we should put this particular image out and providing a basis for that.

Yeah. That is so aligned with kind of my thought process. Right. Where I honestly feel that whoever is in that had diversity role, whatever it is, however you name it, reports into the CEO or the COO, and it's outside of HR. And I will even throw out there that I feel like HR needs to record into DEI because of how diversity and inclusion is such a part of the DNA or should be a part of the DNA of the organization. So I do want to do a little bit of a pivot because I know that you have your own business as well. And I want to talk about that because I think, well, let's talk about what your business is, and then we'll kind of go into a little bit of those details. So talk to me a little bit about the Elan Principle.

Yeah. So the Elan Principle is the brainchild of all these years of work that I've done in the image world, in the consulting and coaching world, and ultimately recognizing that there is a significant and has been a significant gap between some of these services, the services that many of us may be recognized with like, okay, how do I work with someone to help with executive presence and communication and image? But also, why do I not know that this service exists? And the people that often need it the most just almost have a barrier of access to it? That's where the alarm Principle came from. I spent years as a career coach and consultant, working primarily with women from typically marginalized communities and primarily in industries such as ours within equity and impact work. And the issues and challenges that I've noticed kept coming up, which was hitting that glass ceiling or that glass cliff, not quite being sure how to navigate things, and also kind of working within a space where the advice that they were given was through the lens of a white patriarchal paradigm, talk like this, do your hair like that, dress this way. So in other words, if you want to reach the next level professionally or within your career or within your life, you needed to shed a lot of the things that people would deem unprofessional. Being black in my case, being sometimes being a woman and adopts this very overarching assimilation type of practice, which to me goes against my personal ethos. And so that's where the alarm Principle comes into place. We work with dynamic women, typically from marginalized communities, who want to enhance their executive presence, their overall image and communication, without being told that there's something wrong with the facts, that they may be black without being told that there's something wrong with them for being maybe Fuller size or plus size, or that they have to change their diction and tone in some instances. And it's work that's been incredibly rewarding. I work with women across professions and careers, but typically they all kind of work in equity work. And I think it's probably because of what I do as well. So there's that sense of kinship and deep understanding and us also recognizing that there are certain needs that we have that are very unique to the work that we do. We're in the business of empathy. And so sometimes it's even a challenge to step into space where we are working with someone whose job is to be empathetic to us and to serve and work with us. And that's what I do.

I absolutely love that. And I think the question that came to mind as we were kind of preparing for this was there's this conversation happening right now around how do you define professionalism and how is professionalism? How does it manifest in the corporate space? And to your point, it's been very much based on white, male cisgender, this framework. But so many of us don't fit inside that box or that framework. And so how do we step into our authentic selves while also trying to step up and also trying to a lot of balancing. And you spoke about the outside code switching that often is forced for us in these spaces and so talk to us or give us kind of some tips that people can probably think about or ways that they can think about how they could show up authentically in this space while dealing still within a framework that has not changed very much.

I love that question. And the analogy that I like to use is like driving. So everyone has their own style of driving. Some people may have a slightly heavy foot like I do. Some people are in the proverbial left Lane and they're more careful, but everyone is on the road trying to get to where they want to go. And I look at the world of work in a similar way. We're all in this space because we may want to paycheck, we may want to feel a sense of personal fulfillment. We may want to help other people. We may want to create beautiful cuisine. Whatever the case is, we're all on this road together and we all have our own style. And the goal is that we all want to make sure that we all get to where we are trying to go to safely in one piece and without damaging or harming other people along the way. So how do we best do that doesn't mean that I have to drive the exact way you drive at ten and two in maintaining this constant speed limit. Not necessarily. If I'm a little bit more adept and I might go a little bit in the 70s or the 80s, or I might swerve in and out in my way and my authentic way, because that feels right to me. If I can do that without causing trauma for someone who's a brand new driver or new in the world, if I can do that without scaring and harming other folks who have families and then babies on board and I can still get to my destination and you can still get to where you want to go, then I know that I've been my authentic self while also maintaining a mutual and shared understanding that everyone has their own goals, their own dreams, their own desires, and they're all trying to get to where they want to go. And in the world of what professionalism is, it doesn't mean that I have to look like you. I don't have to wear the same thing that you're wearing. I certainly don't have to speak in the exact way that you're speaking, but the basic mechanics remain the same. I extend kindness and courtesy. I believe in kindness and love, and it is Valentine's Day, so I always believe in leading with that. I believe in ultimately staying true to yourself by also recognizing that sometimes the road that you're on the job, that you're on the environment, the organization, you have no business being there in the first place because they're not committed to understanding you. They have no desire to help you feel more comfortable as well. So it's also sometimes being authentic enough to know when to walk away and to say, you know what? This is an environment that is not designed with my health, with my wellness, with my safety in mind at all. And if I was going to be able to survive, to get to collect that check or to serve these people, then I would have to fundamentally change who I am, the things that make me me. And that's not something that I'm willing to compromise on. And it is that balancing act. And it's constantly evolving. And I don't want people to think that it's ultimately evergreen, because as your environments change, sometimes you may notice that, you know what? I have to adjust. And in this world of DEI, which is why I like to say sometimes it's not really quite such thing as a DEI expert, because what was true last week may not be true this week. Right. What language existed last year doesn't quite exist this year. So ultimately it's not evergreen. But you may find as you progress, as you feel more comfortable within yourself, that it gets a little bit easier over time.

Yeah.

Hopefully the car analogy works. it's one of my favorites

No, because I was sitting there like, you do take other people into consideration, but it doesn't necessarily change, as you were saying, like where you position your hand on the wheel or what music you're listening to or whatever it is in your own space, you do that. Right. But just take other people into consideration as you do that or even how you navigate.

Exactly, right.

I love it because all of a sudden I started going in like, okay, yeah, I'm on the highway. That makes perfect sense. Absolutely. So I want to touch on something that you said here. But then you also said when we were talking earlier around just kind of the stress. Right. So we were talking earlier about the front lines and people that follow me know that I've talked about a lot of DEI practitioners being the proverbial frontline of this work, especially after the murder of George Floyd, because companies didn't know what to do. The DEI practitioners were the ones that were kind of being thrown in to kind of figure it out and fix it. But there was a lot of stress. There's a lot of pressure, especially if organizations aren't doing if DEI is not part of the DNA. And those mistakes are constantly happening and the performative acts, as I like to call them, are being called out. Right. The DEI folks are kind of the ones like, okay, this is what we have to do. This is what we have to fix. And it's this constant cycle. And then I kind of go into what you just talked about around my personal brand and your style and the stress that comes with that, because so many people, especially people of color and I'll say even more specifically, black folks are taught. Right? You have to be a certain way in order to be seen as professional. Right? Excuse me, you have to change mannerisms, do all of these things. And with that, there's an additional level of stress. I often say that we're all wearing invisible coats. We just don't know how heavy someone else's coat is. Right. As you are carrying this heavy coat, it adds stress and pressure to you. And so between both of those, it's just need for. And again, it goes back to like, how do we take care of self, right? What are the things that we need to do in order to ensure that as we are doing this work within our organization or as we are trying to move up the ladder within our organizations, that we cannot lose what's most important, which is our health in this. And so talk to us a little bit about the work that you've done in the wellness space and some of the things that you do to take care of yourself.

So touching on that invisible quote. I love that analogy. And it reminds me of this quote. And I think it might have been Maya Angelou who said it may be someone else, but it's rather simple. And it says in order to move on, you've got to let go of the stuff. I don't know. I don't think they said stuff. You got to let go of some of the stuff that weighs you down. And in order to begin letting go of some of the stuff that's weighing you down, in some cases it means identifying what they are in the first place. That's what's worked for me. Some things are I can't escape from I can't escape from being black, I can't escape from being a woman, a cisgendered woman, and the challenges that comes with that. I can't escape from or let go of some of the challenges that I have with mental health, which we touched on. But I can identify the other stressors that make those identities way down on me a little bit heavier. I can choose who I spend my time with. I can choose where I work and how I work. In some cases, I can choose to remove myself, to remove myself, while also asking for the additional help and support that I need that many of us have been told that we shouldn't need or shouldn't ask for. And when we think about the stress that comes with doing this work, I say it all the time that being involved in equity work requires always leading with empathy. And empathy by its very design is always keeping other folks in mind. And some of us were, in a sense, born that way. And it's intrinsic, which is why sometimes we can almost physically feel the physical effects and impacts of emotionally charged situations, of when people are really struggling. And that requires and I've learned to do this. And I'm continuing to learn to do this with accepting that there's going to be a love of guilt that comes with stepping away. But I'd rather trade the stress with the guilt sometimes, because sometimes it does mean that no, I can't take on that additional meeting or have that additional conversation. I do have to step away and the guilt will be there, and I'll identify it. So the guilt is what wave me down. But I call it on and I say, you know what? I'm going to choose to let that go because right now me is better. Taking a shower without thinking of what's going to happen is better than choosing to add more to my plate. And it's a constant shift in balancing act. Some days will be a lot better than others. Some weeks are a lot better than others. At the time. George Floyd I mean, that was extremely taxing. And in some cases it was almost unavoidable. And sometimes in those spaces because it's very easy to say, you don't get a therapist. And I always preach the importance of therapy, but therapists also are drained. Many of them don't accept clients or what have you. Their document is full, so to speak. So sometimes it even helps to find space and community, having conversations like this, connecting with folks who know what you're going through. And sometimes you can just vent and commiserate and share and sob and weep together just so that someone can see you and say you are not alone. These feelings that you have are not unique just to you. And even though it hurts right now and there's no cookie cutter way to make it all better, at the very least for right now, we can share each other's burdens in this space. So it's a couple of different speeds. And everything that I've just spoken to, I think that I have done in real time and continue to do to take care of self. And then there's also the space around the weight of having to pretend or feeling like you have to pretend that the weight doesn't even exist at all and ask them like, okay, well, just another day at work. How's everyone's weekend? Well, this weekend I spent sobbing because another black person was killed, or I spent the time having to live this double life. And I think as I've gotten older, what I appreciate about this time that we're in is that more and more people are starting to say, you know what? I don't accept that. I don't accept having to pretend that everything is okay now. It is easier in some spaces than others. And I want to hold space and acknowledge those that do not currently work in those kinds of environments. And that's extremely tough. And I think that's where things like maybe employee resource groups having community or shared community outside of work is really important because it's not always easy at work sometimes. But if you can, if you can bring some of that space to your work, bring some of that and be open when some folks say, how are you doing? How was your weekend? Try a little bit of honesty on you don't have to throw the whole book at them, but you can say it was a little bit tough with things that have been going on and being honest around that, because quite frankly, they'll either take it and hold space for it or it will make them uncomfortable. But I will never advocate for someone to pretend because to your point, that's the type of denial that's invalidating your own feelings, your own emotions in real time. And it's a form of death. And that might sound dramatic, but to me, that's killing a little bit of yourself every time you say, oh, yeah, sure, I'm fine. You're cutting yourself off and then validating yourself day by day by day. And to what end? To make other people feel comfortable. That's great. Now they feel good and they don't feel the burden if such a type of burden exists, but they don't have to feel the burden of what you're experiencing and what you're dealing with. Which to me is not quite that's not worth it, in my opinion.

Yeah. I mean, I think that it just echoes so much of what I share with my clients. It's who's in your circle of support. Right. Making sure you have that strong circle of support around you, especially in this work, because it can be so taxing, it can be so draining. But then there are also those times where you have a really great day and you want to be able to share that with other people, too. That get it right. And so that, I think, is such a critical part of the work that I do, especially with my coaching clients. So, Adriana, thank you so much for your time today. And I want to make sure that we get your website back on there. So if anyone wants to connect with you, TheElanPrinciple.com is where they can find you. Is there anywhere else where they can find you as well?

Absolutely. You can find me on LinkedIn under Adriana Crawford. I also have a separate page under the Elan Principal. I'm on Instagram at the Elan Principal as well. I'm very active, so you can feel free to reach out to me Facebook as well, under the same name, the Elan Principle. So whatever is your flavor, feel free to go ahead and reach out to me. And I am very responsive to emails and messages.

Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Adrian. I was about to say Elan for joining us today. And I want to thank everyone that has stopped and listened to this conversation because I think it's so important. And I love the fact that we've kind of bridged the corporate work as well as some of the other personal work that needs to take place and how we really need to censor ourselves. Thank you so much. Thank you everyone for watching and listening and we will see you next time be sure to subscribe as well so that you don't miss out on some upcoming episodes. Thanks have a good one. Bye.